I realize that at this time the concept of abortion was being heavily debated. in the 1960's woman's movements where trying to repeal an abortion law on the grounds that woman had the right to chose for them self. There where also many medical professionals that where in agreement. I thought about it for awhile because its something i really haven't put a lot of thought on. For me personally i feel it is a woman's chose. But behind that what happens if a women get raped or she die because of the pregnancy. How then can you tell someone that they shouldn't have an abortion. The major problem that i see is that the major groups that where against abortion where conservative religious nuts that are moral against abortion for any reason weather it save another life or for any reason at all. After watching the film i think that the use of this major social issue was intentional.The use of God, Satan, and religious ties would grab the attention of the opponents and show them a little reason. The makers use horror to obscure the direct commentary their making. And this allows any person to watch the film and have empathy for the woman and wish she had a way to get rid of the devil baby.
So when i started watching this movie I was very skeptical of how it had anything to do with the overall concepts from our class. I mean a horror film is mean to scare people and really play with peoples primal fears. Like a mothers fear of losing a child witch was plainly clear in this film. I personally feel that when it comes to film criticism sometimes people go overboard trying to think of over the top subplots and hidden meaning within films. I will admit what ever is going on in society will often be mirrored in our media; but i strongly feel that sometime we go to far when the explanation might be a simple as trying to scare someone or to entertain. I felt after our in class discussion that the ideas where being pushed a little farther and abstract then the makers most likely intended.
I think the most interesting part of this discussion deals with the modernization of the the pregnancy. At this time technology was progressing and the medical profession was turning to drugs and modern medicins to help deal with the problems and complications of woman's pregnancy. Even in the early sixties infant and mother deaths where happening. I feel that the movie does a good job of making a commentary on the use drugs and new medicines in pregnancy's. Its scary to know that there where a lot of baby's being born with birth defects due to poor medical practices and doctors giving woman median that they them self's didn't know if they where any good. I can see that this idea would scare woman to know end. Think about it, you want to have a better change of having a healthy pregnancy so you take pills and medications and then your baby has defects because of the drugs. That's something no mother would want to deal with.
I guess its just crazy to think about someone trying to make a horror movie that's at its core deals with social issues that where such a big deal at this time. I wish at i could have been alive at this time in order to see if these ideas where really such a big topic on peoples mind. But i guess i never I'll so i have to say that for the most part people most likely saw this for a scary horror film and not much of a social commentary on woman's rights, abortion and pregnancy.
I would like to thank you for making sense in what you said. Haha. I appreciate you bringing some reality into the conversation. For me I think that the abortion debate should be left to the women as well. I can see where a man can make an argument that abortion isn’t right, but when push come to shove a man will not be carrying the baby, so guys, just shut up. I wanted to focus on the reading for a second though You make a good connection and one that I really took sometime to think about while reading. I Thought that it was interesting that abortion was justified on terms of a woman’s heath. That it was justified by her health being in jeopardy. Also how on the other hand the law against abortions became dangerous as women were turning to back alley abortions that eventually led to health problems anyways. The thing that really stuck me was the ever-longing idea of paranoia in accordance to childbirth. I can see how physical problems can justify abortion, but I never thought about the psychological aspect of how childbirth may affect a woman. The reading outlines how paranoia led to health problems that could ultimately lead to justified abortion. “Fetal perniciousness and women’s susceptibility to insanity.” This is almost justified in the movie as the idea of prepartum syndrome is addressed.
ReplyDeleteI also like how the reading brought in the idea of Roe v. Wade as a segue to prove the paranoia and privacy. Rosemary had privacy but she was forced to share it with people whom should have been included in the childbearing process, i.e. her doctor, husband and closest friends. It seems as though it proves that privacy isn’t always the best option, but rather serve as a foundation that a woman’s choice is the most important consideration in the matter. It’s also interesting in terms of the New York mentality that the reading addresses. The never trust anyone idea the Rosemary by the end embodied. Which, as the reading implies, goes against the feminist persona brought up in class. It suggests that isolation is a better justification to femininity exploitation and unity.
ReplyDeleteAnother point that you talked about which I wanted to talk on was the overemphasized idea the movie couldn’t simply be a horror film. I feel like sometimes, as a modern audience we are so critical to put art on a timeline and make such ridiculous assumptions bases on societal issues dependant on where we place the art. The artist of course will be subconsciously influenced by societal tensions in some ways, but perhaps the artist isn’t always sculpting this huge metaphor in every aspect of the art. I don’t know I just think that sometimes we need to appreciate the art for being art of in this case just a horror film that engages our human archetypes which evidently makes us explore ourselves and society. I feel likes sometimes were so quick to make meaning of our liking of the evil and gruesome scenes through the justification of analysis. In other words its like the “car accident” scenario, we don’t want to look but we have to kind of thing. We are as humans so restrained and I feel that the purpose of a horror film is to let the darker side if human nature breathes, but because this is so politically incorrect we make such assumptions, blaming social tensions to justify the personal pleasure we experience from the film. Maybe everyone readers this and thinks I am nuts, that fine, but at least I made you think about something other than how a court case is related to a horror movie or a feminist principal.
sorry this had to be in two parts it would not let me post all at once
As a horror movie fanatic, I can't believe I haven't seen this movie before. It was very interesting to me and I really liked it. This movie is different from the way horror movies are usually portrayed now a days in the sense that this is 'close to home'. Women have babies on a daily basis and for something this horrible to happen to her in her own home that she has no control over is scary. In the article, it explains that this movie is Gothic which is, "a narrative technique, a
ReplyDeletegeneric spin that transforms the lovely and the beautiful into the abhorrent." This is exactly what the movie does which makes it so scary especially for this time. This was happening to an upper middle class, white family who lived in a nice apartment. These people were respectable and people liked them. Even though the 'monster baby' couldn't really happen, the thought of rape could, or just as bad if a woman had a baby that wasn't 'perfect'. These were huge horrors at the time and scared the hell out of people. My biggest fear from this movie was the fact that there was nothing she could do. No one believed her, which was because everyone was in on it. People she thought she courld trust - her neighbors, her doctor, even her own husband were in on it. Who would you turn to? At this time, men like her husband and especially doctors were so looked up to as authority figures, that it was crazy to think they would do anything other then help someone. A doctor and hospital represented something safe and clean, something the women could turn to and that is taken away in this movie.
It was mentioned about her hair and her new cut. I this that it was almost a subtle way for her to take hold of something in her life. She had no say in anything and her hair was one thing she could change and no one could do anything about it. (Although someone should have, even if it was popular at the time). She looked so much better with her original hair, and I couldn't help but think she looked not only worse, but skinnier, pailer, and just much more sickly. Definitely not a mother-to-be sort of look.
As for the whole abortion subject it's interesting to try and think about what that was all like during that time. Since abortion was illegal what were women supposed to do who were put in these horrible situations? I think that even if abortion was an option for Rosemary I don't think she would have done it. Not until the very end did she know what was going on and even if she did, she wanted that baby more than anything. Once a women is pregnant, they have that motherly instinct that kicks in and almost always it's impossible to get them away from their baby. They would do anything for it.
ReplyDeleteThe whole idea of medication was taken to another level also in this movie. During the time medicine was a newer idea to the pregnancy scene and even though most of it worked well, it was still in the beginning stages and sometimes didn't work well or didn't go as planned. Throughout this movie Rosemary is given different medications to 'help her pregnancy'. In reality it was only making her worse and helping her 'monster child' grow. This was scary for women because they had to trust their doctors that they were giving them the right medication. If they found out it was wrong or wasn't working right, what would they do?
I found the ending very interesting. After she realizes what is going on, I found myself screaming in my head, 'jump out with window' or 'take the baby and run'. I thought that she would do something to try and change the fate of her baby. This is all something she never wanted or asked for and I thought she would try and do something about it. I got even more freaked out when she went over and started to act like a mother towards it. This really shows how deep of a bond a mother has with her baby. That she really will do anything to have her baby. The baby is clearly an offspring of Satan, and still she goes over to rock the crib. I'm not entirely sure why she did what she did. However, throughout the movie she never had any options; everything she did was told to her. Now, she almost had an option. She could either run from the situation, or be a mother to her new demon child. Maybe she felt she had no other choice but to stay, or maybe the motherly bond was too hard for her to break - I don't know.
I too am amazed that I haven't seen this movie before since I am also a big horror movie fan. The film had an incredibly creepy feel to it which kept me drawn in as a viewer. The film seemed to be a bit slower at times, but the creepy tone to the movie kept me interested which is the true sign of a good film maker. I do agree with all of you on the interesting coverage of the abortion topic that this film has. This film, as with many of the others that we have seen in class pays attention to the relevant fears of it’s time period. The only challenge for me here is realizing the fears of that time and being able to relate to them. Once I can get in the mindset of someone who had lived in this era then I can understand what exactly the film means to convey. By this point in time women were having their babies in sterile hospitals to ensure the good health of their newborns. The fact that she is forced to have the child at home and encouraged by her doctor to not read any pregnancy books or speak to her friends must have been horrible. I understand why she was so frightened at these parts. The film comments on abortion by presenting a fictional situation where a woman needs to get rid of her child but cannot due to those that she turns to. The commentary was subtle, but once I found it it really stuck with me after my initial viewing.
ReplyDeleteWhat I like about this discussion is the various responses you all give to Will's implicit question about how, exactly, a horror movie, which is basically just supposed to scare people, can also be a comment about current social issues. I think Julie's response is especially strong. Pregnancy--pregnancies that went wrong, that were unwanted, that resulted in a baby with severe birth defects, too many babies, too few babies, were a huge source of anxiety at the time, as many of the readings so far have alluded to. Of course this movie doesn't make sense as a movie about abortion rights. It's not, and it's not meant to be. But it _is_ a movie about aspects of everyday life that, if taken to an extreme, are horrific, and the element of horror has to do with situations that could be real and really do happen. Giving birth to a Satanic baby is unlikely. But giving birth out of coercion in a situation where a woman had very little control over what happened to her was all too real at the time.
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